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(and is she consciousness or unconsciousness?)
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Unsu...
Re: what is Kali not?
Wed, October 7, 2009 - 9:18 AMAnswers to these questions depend on whether you worship Kali as a divine being or if you see Kali simply as a mental doorway to be passed through on a human's journey toward enlightenment. -
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Re: what is Kali not?
Wed, October 7, 2009 - 6:13 PMI see Kali as a window to the divine, a cultural construct that becomes a living deity when employed as the template through which we project our love for God. Any other window works equally well. It's really a matter of personal preference. I happen to prefer hot and crazy dominatrixes.
In terms of representation, for me, She is the entire universe and everything in it. That all rests on the absolute, Shiva kicking it in nirvakalpa. So, you could say that She is everything going on and He is the eternity that contains it. -
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Re: what is Kali not?
Wed, October 7, 2009 - 6:47 PMso Kali is time and Shiva is space?
(nirvikalpa huh thanks for teaching me a new word! i'm really interested in discovering/learning about Shiva's state) -
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Re: what is Kali not?
Wed, October 7, 2009 - 6:50 PMoh, and so can Kali be "more" manifest in some/any things and "less" in others?
btw thank you all for your guidance - i appreciate it. -
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Re: what is Kali not?
Wed, October 7, 2009 - 9:49 PM> oh, and so can Kali be "more" manifest in some/any things and "less" in others?
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To this I would respond: never, never, ever.
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Re: what is Kali not?
Wed, October 7, 2009 - 9:51 PM> so Kali is time and Shiva is space?
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Kali is the manifest and Shiva is the eternal absolute. Kali is the dancer and Shiva is the dancefloor.
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Re: what is Kali not?
Wed, October 7, 2009 - 6:59 PMhey picaro i wasn't really sure how to respond to your statement.. but well seeing as i am not in a constant state of bliss (it comes and goes, and really only *hits* me - so i drift back and forward between realisation and 'forgetfulness', union and separation) as i hardly ever meditate - i'm not yet ready to get used to where i go when i meditate, so i go easy on it - i choose to study, and contemplate.. so while i'm not giving all i am to the pursuit, i try to give all i have.. time, focus, intelligence, rationality, consideration, commitment and gratitude etc..
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Re: what is Kali not?
Wed, October 7, 2009 - 9:23 AMThe Devi-Atharva sheersham says: 'Jnananam chinmayateeeta, shoonyanam shoonyasakshini'. Literally- in knowledge, she is beyond consciousness and She is the witness of the 'shoonya'. She, being beyond duality, is neither consciousness nor unconsciousness- she is beyond both. The above also means that She cannot be known by our intellect. We can only vaguely grasp at Her with our intuition.
There are only a few things She is not- amongst others they are : limited, knowable, definable. -
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Re: what is Kali not?
Wed, October 7, 2009 - 9:27 AMhow then might one give her anything then least of all attention? -
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Re: what is Kali not?
Wed, October 7, 2009 - 10:26 AMYou are right - we cannot give Her anything. All we can do is realise our identity with Her. BUT- that said- that is at the highest level of truth. At the lower level of consciousness, we can 'give' Her things till we truly realise that we cannot give Her anything.
Of all the things we can 'give' the biggest are our own self and its components which keep us from Her- ego, selfishness, hatred, greed,anger, lust,laziness, ambition etc. What we give in a puja or a bali is relatively simple- giving up these things are years of work and only works with Her grace.
These are just words and empty and meaningless concepts without work. With sadhana these become meaningful.
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Re: what is Kali not?
Wed, October 7, 2009 - 10:30 AMWhen you 'give' Her attention, you move away from your lower self and towards realisation of your true self- Her. It is not for Her- but for you. It is like being the child of a Queen- one can only give meaningless pebbles. It is only the love that makes it meaningful. -
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Re: what is Kali not?
Wed, October 7, 2009 - 6:07 PMThinking there's a lower self vs. a true self is a very good way to keep the jnana away. -
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Re: what is Kali not?
Thu, October 8, 2009 - 7:11 AMJody,
as ever - I am impressed by your humility and non-judgmental nature and response.
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