A murti of Mother

topic posted Thu, August 7, 2008 - 7:37 AM by  Grihastha
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I'm in the process of constructing - to be honest, cobbling together - my altar for the daily puja I offer to Ma.

Being an extremely visual and aesthetically aware person (too much so, sometimes) I'm trying to get everything right, which isn't easy out in the cultural wasteland that is VT. I have a nice old south Indian oil lamp, but that's about it. I'm going to build a mandir. For Puja implements I'll probably go to the ISKCON store online, but my real stumbling block is the image of Her.

My principle deity is Matangi, but there doesn't seem to be any such thing as a Matangi murti. There are statues of Meenakshee, but that isn't how I see Her, 'cause I'm much more Kalikula oriented. I've been thinking of buying a Saraswati sculpture and working on it to substitute Matangi's attributes. BUT my actual question is:

As Shaktas we're all worshipping Mother. So does it actually matter from anything other than an aesthetic point of view which of Her aspects we have on our altars? If I see Her as Matangi but find an image of Durga in which I find Her to be strongly present, is it allowable to worship that image? Personally I tend towards the viewpoint that it doesn't matter at all, as She is as much present in me and the air around us as she is in any image and that image is at best a visual reference for meditation and a random focus for devotion, but I'm interested to find out what you all think, and if anyone has any ideas for creating/acquiring an appropriate murti.

Cheers, Pip

Matha marakatha shyama, Mathangi madha shalini
Kuryath kadaksham kalyani kadambha vana vasini!
posted by:
Grihastha
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  • Re: A murti of Mother

    Thu, August 7, 2008 - 9:38 AM
    > For Puja implements I'll probably go to the ISKCON store online
    *****
    Best place EVER to buy shakta supplies:

    kalimandir.org/puja_shop/shop.asp

    Also, the priests from the Dakshineswar Kali Temple will be at Open Secret Bookstore in San Rafael this Friday, August 8 at 7:00 PM to perform a shortened but traditional Kali puja. Get there early for good seats.
    • Re: A murti of Mother

      Thu, August 7, 2008 - 9:47 AM
      www.exoticindia.com/ has a large selection of brass murtis.

      there is some interesting stuff about the Kaulas in Nepal, the inner Tantric Goddesses like Kubjika don't usually have their own murtis; there is a sort of prana pratisthana to manifest a specific Goddess in the murti of a different Goddess.
      • Re: A murti of Mother

        Thu, August 7, 2008 - 10:19 AM
        Hey Saul, where would I find that info? Mark Dyczkowski, maybe?

        Oddly enough an email from exoticindia just appeared - 30 seconds after I read your post - in my inbox, telling me all about their new murtis, including 4 massive painted stone statues of Ma. Pretty funny.
        • Re: A murti of Mother

          Thu, August 7, 2008 - 12:37 PM
          Her'e another source. Don't know if you vibe with any of them. I have the clay Dakshineshwar Kali.
          store.mas-india.com/kali.html
          • Re: A murti of Mother

            Thu, August 7, 2008 - 8:22 PM
            >>store.mas-india.com/kali.html

            if you look at some of the bracelets, notice the mistakes in the sanskrit.

            I bought some cool stuff from them, but I wonder if they manufacture the bracelets - there are obvious errors on some of them. whoever made them is not fully literate in sanskrit.
    • Re: A murti of Mother

      Thu, August 7, 2008 - 10:07 AM
      Brilliant - I've been looking for a kosha but only ever find really $$ antique ones.

      Don't expect the Dakshineswar priests are coming to Vermont any time soon...
  • Re: A murti of Mother

    Thu, August 7, 2008 - 1:14 PM
    >> So does it actually matter from anything other than an aesthetic point of view which of Her aspects we have on our altars? If I see Her as Matangi but find an image of Durga in which I find Her to be strongly present, is it allowable to worship that image?


    It does matter when one is beginning a practice... but in many ways it all depends on how you wish to worship.... If you are interested in having an altar that is only a visual reference than the aesthetics matter only to you, if it is for you only, unless you are wanting to open up your home for others to also worship... Some people only worship a water pot as the murti ya know, but here as with all other murtis it is having the right mantra(s) that really matter, or else it is just an ordinary statue, idol or pot, mysterious or pretty, but useless...

    some people only do manasa puja, some like to combine both kinds of worship, one being very formal puja at an altar with all the implements, murtis, pictures etc. -- combining both subtle and gross components -- while other times doing manasa puja. but when one develops the ability for manasa puja none of those "things" are really needed any longer ... do you see what I mean?


    best of luck :)
    • Re: A murti of Mother

      Thu, August 7, 2008 - 1:43 PM
      Thanks, Adya.

      The problem for me is that while I'm powerfully drawn to worship Her in some sort of formal way, I find that the more rules, steps and prohibitions I find the more they get in the way of offering love, which is all I've got, really. Unfortunately I'm the sort of person who bridles at external authority of any sort, even if that happens to be a strict formula for puja, and while my own little ceremony feels right to me, I know it isn't any sort of right from even a faintly orthodox standpoint. I tend to shrug that off with the 'Hey, I'm a tantrika' defence, but that sometimes feels like a cop-out, and I can't really explain why. I KNOW I'm not the faintest bit interested in rigid structure and procedural dogma, but I have a feeling I should be. If that makes sense (it sure doesn't to me). Trouble is, I'm someone as attracted to religion as I am repelled by Religion. People will say 'find a guru,' but if I did and the guru gave me some long list of rules and instructions I know myself well enough to predict I would never follow them, and resent rules, guru etc into the bargain. And it wouldn't bring me any closer to Her lotus feet.

      I'll find out if I pleased Her in my next birth, I suppose... :-/
      • Re: A murti of Mother

        Thu, August 7, 2008 - 8:15 PM
        hehehe ... well, if you ask me, what you describe sounds like the typical dilemma of the soul's journey.

        The real point however in finding the external Guru who will guide you to the Self and is none other than That if they are the real deal, is that they will challenge everything about you, because their point is to help eradicate your fixations, habits and impurities and this is precisely why the Guru exists. most people except for the rarest of rare beings will ever be able to take a clear and sober look in the mirror and actually identify their faults (and past accumulated karmas) and be willing to let go and dissolve them for good (meaning for ever and that's a mighty long time). and most will never be disciplined enough to not accumulate any further karmas without the anchor of the Guru and the lineage behind them.

        all spoken from the girl who said she never would :)

        Jai Ma!
      • Re: A murti of Mother

        Thu, August 7, 2008 - 8:41 PM
        >>I find that the more rules, steps and prohibitions I find the more they get in the way of offering love, which is all I've got, really.

        bhakti is an established and respected path. it may not be everyone's cup of tea but that does not mean that simply offering one's love to Ma is not both valid and with historical precedent. we are all ultimately dependent on anugraha. I do think that our actions are part of how things are supposed to play out, however.

        >>Unfortunately I'm the sort of person who bridles at external authority of any sort, even if that happens to be a strict formula for puja, and while my own little ceremony feels right to me, I know it isn't any sort of right from even a faintly orthodox standpoint.

        I find that structured puja is a form of self discipline. I like that. but do I think that Ma really cares one way or another? no. everybody is different. we all go back to Her one way or another, but the ways in which we do so may vary.

        >>I tend to shrug that off with the 'Hey, I'm a tantrika' defence, but that sometimes feels like a cop-out, and I can't really explain why.

        well, tantra itself is often highly structured; the changes it makes to orthodox ritual all have their own correspondences and meanings. as antinomian as it may be, I do believe that tantra is a very structured path, especially compared to bhakti.

        >>People will say 'find a guru,' but if I did and the guru gave me some long list of rules and instructions I know myself well enough to predict I would never follow them, and resent rules, guru etc into the bargain. And it wouldn't bring me any closer to Her lotus feet.

        some of us continue to test and test :)

        Ma will let me know when the time and the teacher are right. in the meantime I explore that Light which makes me question, that Self awareness which is Siva. I don't believe there is any one "right" way. there is what is right for a certain individual at a certain stage in their development. and we must all use our discrimination to decide when we have found what is correct for us, at that time. to do otherwise would be to marginalize that spark of the divine which is inherent in all of us and which inspires these questions, doubts and uncertainties in the first place. your questioning nature is Siva, beholding Himself, desiring union with His Sakti.

        (IMHO, as always)
        • Re: A murti of Mother

          Thu, August 7, 2008 - 8:47 PM
          > your questioning nature is Siva, beholding Himself, desiring union with His Sakti.
          *****
          So many gurus try to stamp out the questioning Siva. It is the number one mark that they are unfit for the job.
        • Re: A murti of Mother

          Fri, August 8, 2008 - 6:38 AM
          >>hehehe ... well, if you ask me, what you describe sounds like the typical dilemma of the soul's journey.

          Funny that. I've been wandering around muttering 'dark night of the soul, dark night of the soul' since I started this thread. Nice to have a typical problem...

          >>all spoken from the girl who said she never would :)

          Yep, never say never...

          >>I find that structured puja is a form of self discipline. I like that.

          I do as well. It's when I look at the instructions that ISKCON give out, for instance (no disrespect intended, but just not my cuppa tea, at all), that seem so rigid and full of injunctions that I start to bridle. But it's typically perverse that I'll follow my own rules, no matter how convoluted I make them. And that is for the self-discipline more than anything else. And when you break the rules you have that in-built element of transgression...

          >>we all go back to Her one way or another, but the ways in which we do so may vary.

          Indeed.

          >>in the meantime I explore that Light which makes me question, that Self awareness which is Siva. I don't believe there is any one "right" way. there is what is right for a certain individual at a certain stage in their development. and we must all use our discrimination to decide when we have found what is correct for us, at that time. to do otherwise would be to marginalize that spark of the divine which is inherent in all of us and which inspires these questions, doubts and uncertainties in the first place.

          Good words - thank you.
          >>your questioning nature is Siva, beholding Himself, desiring union with His Sakti.

          >>So many gurus try to stamp out the questioning Siva. It is the number one mark that they are unfit for the job.

          Also, the ability to recognize teachers - as opposed to The Guru - is so vital. The divine spark is so faint compared to the static and mindless babble of what we call 'real life,' but teachers are everywhere - eg right here. In a way, to understand that, and to allow yourself to let Maya unfold around you and to pay attention, is a greater leap of faith than accepting Her,

          Namaste, everyone!

          Pip
  • Re: A murti of Mother

    Fri, August 8, 2008 - 3:06 AM
    Pip,
    Dont worry too much about it. The place we need to install the Goddess is in ourselves. Beyond that, more than a murti/pratima, it is better to use a yantra. I will not advice doing this however without proper guidance. You can also use a photo/drawing.
  • Re: A murti of Mother

    Tue, October 7, 2008 - 10:04 PM
    Yoga Mandala in Berkeley, CA has a wonderful image of Matangi commissioned in the Newari style. They sell prints for $25. She is GORGEOUS!
    www.yogamandalastudio.com

    The Trika Institute, which is associated with the studio, also hosted Navaratri this year (tomorrow we honor Durga as end of the celebration) with traditional pujas every night. It's been lovely! We have a Siva Mandir on site, and resident pujaris who do the deed every morning before the Nataraj. By his side is a powerful image of Kali carved in black stone. If you're ever in the Bay Area, it's worth a trip.
  • Re: A murti of Mother

    Sat, November 15, 2008 - 9:00 AM
    Hello Grihasta,
    If you go to www.shaktisadhana.org/ you can find some Matangi information by a devotee named Devi Bhaka.There's also a link on that site for their Yahoo group, where you can ask questions.This person also does paintings of Her, and i'm sure he (and most likely others) will point you in the right direction for a murti.

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