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If one was a female devotee of Kali, would she be "Kali Dasa", "Kali Das", or "Kali Dasi"?
Thanks!
Ashley
Thanks!
Ashley
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Re: A question about sanskrit....
Tue, September 22, 2009 - 7:34 PMOf the three forms you mentioned, "das" (without a final vowel) is not really Sanskrit--it belongs to the modern languages of north India. Of the two Sanskrit forms, the one ending in "-a" is masculine, and the one ending in "-i" is feminine. Dasa/dasi literally means a servant or slave. By extension, the masculine form can also mean a S'udra, and the feminine form can also mean a harlot.
Hope this helps.
Jai Ma!
--Devidas -
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Re: A question about sanskrit....
Wed, September 23, 2009 - 6:43 AMThank you. Although "das" is not Sanskrit, does it also mean "servant" as well? What other meanings would it have? And is it masculine or either gender? For "dasi"--when you say harlot, is it perceive as a sacred prostitute or a profane one? -
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Re: A question about sanskrit....
Wed, September 23, 2009 - 9:35 AMYes, "das" (the vowel is long) also means "servant." For other meanings, if any, you should ask someone in India (I'm American, living in the US). The modern languages of northern India tend to drop off the original "-a" of masculine Sanskrit forms. In most cases, including this one, it is possible to attach a long "-i" to the shortened form to specifically refer to a female. I don't think "dasi" is perceived as "harlot" (extended, additional meaning) anymore. That was a usage that was current when Sanskrit was current. I don't think you need to worry about it, but the usage would have most commonly applied to the mundane variety.
Jai Ma!
--Devidas -
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Re: A question about sanskrit....
Wed, September 23, 2009 - 5:47 PM
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Re: A question about sanskrit....
Thu, September 24, 2009 - 2:13 PMDas would still be masculine and Dasi still feminine in derivatives of Sanskrit.
Even in Sanskrit, a dasi to a God/Goddess loses its meaning as a harlot. E.g. Ramadasi is the dasi of Rama and not a Dasi. Devadasi were temple dancers whose function degenrated into courtesans. In ancient India though- a courtesan was not a bad thing( they definitely lacked the victorian attitude to sex which came in, in the medieval period). Courtesans in ancient India were very much like the Japanese Geisha
and not like the harlots in a whorehouse. -
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Re: A question about sanskrit....
Fri, September 25, 2009 - 11:14 AMWhat you've outlined is pretty much my perspective too, Durgaputra. I think Ashley should feel free to call herself Kalidasi if she wants to. I would, in her place.
Jai Ma!
--Devidas -
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Re: A question about sanskrit....
Fri, September 25, 2009 - 6:48 PMThank you all for this insight! Very helpful! This might be nit picking, but would it still be appropriate if I put a space in the middle as in "Kali Dasi" verses Kalidasi.
Thanks!!!
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Re: A question about sanskrit....
Fri, September 25, 2009 - 8:03 PMThe space would change the meaning. Kali Dasi would be a dasi named Kali or in modern context be a family name of Dasi. But Kalidasi would be a Dasi of Kali.. Sandhi OR joining words has a great role in Sanskrit.
You would have heard of the great poet Kalidasa of course- whose works continue to sweeten the lives of even those with a smattering of Sanskrit. -
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Re: A question about sanskrit....
Sat, September 26, 2009 - 8:17 AMOkay, let me see if I understand. Kali Dasi would mean a servant or temple dancer named "Kali" where as Kalidasi would mean "Servant of Kali"? Is that right? So the kirtan singer Krishna Das is really a servant named Krishna not a servant of Krishna? -
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Re: A question about sanskrit....
Sat, September 26, 2009 - 12:09 PMHe means it as "servant of Krishna." But you must remember that Sanskrit is about as dead in India as Latin is in Europe (and until 1962 I would have said exactly as dead, but now Latin is deader). Practically no one uses Sanskrit as a living language anymore (news broadcasts from Germany notwithstanding), though many pretend, for social, political, or religious purposes that their family does use it. Usages in the modern languages descended from Sanskrit are not the same as usages in Sanskrit. One of the reasons for this is that there is far less "sandhi" (euphonic joining of words) in the modern languages. The name Kalidasa was based on the rules for Sanskrit, while Krishna Das is probably based on the rules for Hindi or Bengali (or Gujarati, or whatever). But even in the modern languages, I would prefer to see the form Krishnadas.
Jai Ma!
--Devidas -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: A question about sanskrit....
Sat, September 26, 2009 - 12:26 PMDas is a modern surname- and even possibly a caste based surname. So omitting the space removes all confusion.
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: A question about sanskrit....
Sat, September 26, 2009 - 12:27 PMDevidas,
Das is a Bengali surname. I am not sure if this is restricted to Bengal or covers some other states too.. -
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Re: A question about sanskrit....
Sat, September 26, 2009 - 4:29 PMDon't know how widely distributed the surname Das is. In any case, I agree that leaving out the space is the best way. Nice to meet you, by the way, Durgaputra. I'm quite new to this tribe. Nice to meet you too, Ashley/Kalidasi. I browsed some of your photos and they were very nice.
Jai Ma!
--Devidas
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